On to the Hard Stuff…This blog is a direct continuation of the last, so if you haven’t covered it yet, please head back there to read that one first.

As a recap: the last few blogs have pivoted off of questions Mae Neecha had asked me early in our conversation:

“Is hot and cold generally the same for humans? For instance, desert temperatures are hot, arctic temperatures are cold? Is human hot and cold the same is kangaroo hot and cold? Or penguin hot and cold? If it is indeed only in our minds, then if we don’t think it, then it won’t exist?”

As you may recall, my first ah-ha/zone/retreat night contemplation had left me too nama-centric; taken to an extreme, but logical, conclusion, the view was that my mind/ my thoughts/ my beliefs alone govern my experiences of this world. All the work, till this point, has been about balancing out that view. Developing a rather nuanced understanding of rupa so that I could see what it is, how it functions in this world, and how my nama relates to it.

In the last blog I got as far as seeing how the fairly straightforward ideas of hot/cold are grounded in form: both the form of the temperatured object and the form of the beings that perceive the temperatured object. And then that particularly tempetured objects, like hot food, can have a meaning I assign (being cared-for or loved) based on my experiences and imagination.

Here we will start digging a bit deeper. I use literally the same model of how hot/cold work to begin to dissect even more abstract, and for me emotionally loaded, topics like good, pretty, safe, etc. So here we go…

A: I have figured out a few more: strong/weak, loud/quiet, delicious/yuk, dark/light, rich/poor.

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NOTE: This part was not in the original conversation, it was implied. But I will fill it in here so you can trace my thinking process a bit more clearly.

Strong/Weak — Based on the 4es of an object, it can exhibit a particular hardness or weight. Based on 4es of a human, humans can have the ability to exert a certain amount of power or strength on physical objects. There is variability within species because I can regularly weight lift, thereby altering my own 4es to become stronger. Moreover there is natural difference in 4es of muscle across our species, across sex and age.

Delicious/Yuk – The 4es of a particular food give it a taste. The 4es of a human enable us to register taste. There is some consensus across the species – most poisonous plants taste bad. Sugar tastes sweet. But if I find a food too bitter or too sweet can be based on what I am used to, based on what my palate has been trained for. So, a Japanese person who has spent their whole lives eating Japanese food will have a different palat then an American person. I used to find certain Japanese foods too fishy, but as I ate more Japanese food my palat was trained and I no longer found I so fishy.

Rich/Poor – quantity of goods is something that can be measured for 4e objects. Humans can use our own 4es to sense and therefore quantify objects. But the amount of an object that constitutes a lot can depend on the context of an individual. A lot of money in India may be less then a lot of money in America based on what I am used to and what a single dollar can buy. Moreover, a lot can depend on what I had in the past.

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But I am stuck on ones like good and pretty because I see that what something is used to/adapted to has a role in all of this, but I can’t see the purely Rupa role for clean or pretty or good.

Let me share how far I have gotten on clean and maybe you can help from there…

I was thinking about light and dark and remembered an art exhibit I saw in Japan; people in a group go into a pitch-black room and sit. Then about 15 min later I started to see a light. Everyone else saw it too. I thought something had turned on but the docent explained nothing in the room changed, our eyes simply adapted to the darkness and we could see. This is how I know adapted/used to plays a role here and I saw it in rich/poor, strong/weak, etc.

For a dirty room, I see the 4es can accumulate and there is some quantity at which humans 4Es can experience it. So dust for example, a certain quantity interacts with human eyes and is visible, it can interact with lung 4es and effect breathing. I know dirty for a dust mites or mole must be different than for humans. I also know my own personal 4Es play a role–as an asthmatic it may take a lesser quantity of dust to begin a 4e coughing reaction in my chest than yours.

My problem is, I know dirty in India is different than dirty standards in SF. I also known when I take my SF self to India it is really troubling to be in a society where the clean standards are so different than mine. For Innuits vs Miami folk and temperature I can clearly see the Rupa reason why we would call different things cold, but I can’t see it for dirty.

Also for things like good/bad, lovable/hateable I am having an issue. I can see how what I am used to plays a role: so if I wasn’t used to SF I don’t think I would hate NY so much. I also see not everyone and not every species hates it. But I can’t break it into Rupa, it seems so personal preference. I see love is something that exists across humans and across species, but I can’t see how I love Eric but my brother loves his wife is something that is deeply rooted in the Rupa realm other than on each of our individual interpretation of it based on our own 3s and 4s. Struggling with beauty too.

Thank you!!!

A: Ok on clean maybe I am closer than I thought. In Mexico, Mexicans drink the water and don’t get sick, but my Dr. warned me not to drink water when I went cause Americans are more likely to get sick. So fine I see the Rupa in clean.

But how is love or goodness broken into elements…hard ☹️ Wait..does good have to do with karma? Ugh hard

MN: You’re making good progress! (good)

Here’s the answer to back solve for – Every intangible quality has rupa and the 4e at its core. Without rupa and 4e, those qualities wouldn’t be able to be seen or proven.

For love, what is it that you love? How do you perceive that love? What tangibles prove Eric’s love for you? What physical things prove your love for Eric?

Let’s get the rupa and 4e cleared away before we dive into karma. That’s also important and seems that karma’s role in everything is missing from your in the zone realization

A: Ok I got beauty/ ugly is just an arrangement of 4Es that is pleasing/displeasing to my the senses (more 4es).

I think I have figured out hate too ( I’ll get love on my own as an extension). I’ll start with the punchline: for me hate is about stability and I can clearly find a 4E basis for stability.

I used to keep fish tanks and you are not supposed to empty all the water out of a tank to clean it, only some. The water has its own unique temp, pH, boom and if you change it all at once it can shock the fish to death, they need stability.( 4Es of fish need a particular arrangement of 4 Es in the environment that can’t change too quickly).

I hate NY, it is loud, dirty, overcrowded, people speak harshly, body language is harsh, movement is fast. Alana’s 4es was used/ adapted to an SF arrangement of 4es and NY 4Es shocked my system. It was unstable.

I hated my mom as a kid; when she flipped out for seemingly no reason she would flail, yell, withhold food, clothes, shelter, physical affection and attention and isolate me so no one else could provide these. The 4es of my environment registered as unstable to my 4es.

There are 4 E reasons a Bedouin would register a certain arrangement of 4Es as more or less stable than a Midwestern kid who has never left their hometown. But there is a range for humans. There is also a different range for cockroaches than for ( the super sensitive) Mandarin Gobi.

Moreover(I’m still testing) if temperature is in the 4e of water and registering it is in my 4e than feeling heat is a symptom of the interaction btwn the water 4e and my 4e. Just so, stability is in the environment and my ability to register more or less is based on my 4 es. Hate is a symptom of the interaction between the 4es in the environment and the 4 es in my self.

Zooming out of Rupa world for a sec: To this day my Mom’s voice, word choice perfume, face, all prickle me. It is old memories and my storyteller self (4) smoothing over all that has changed and selling the lie that my mom and I and the situation are still the same. That she is still a much weightier factor in my stability/instability than she act is in the current circumstances I.

Also, as long as we are zoomed out here: I spend most of my life chasing shit I love and trying to avoid what I hate. If hate is just instability, and instability is (increasingly obviously) the rule of this world…that is a pretty clear path to help me loosen my attachment.

Anyway, next needs to be good/bad. I have saved it because it is crazy hot button for me, but I will try. My instinct is to start with worthy of reward/punishment. Or worthy of safety/ unsaftey. Any thoughts?

Thank you!!!

MN: The 4E are the basis for everything. Our feelings of like or dislike are represented by things, tangible physical objects.

If I am pleased after a meal, that pleasure is based on the 4E of food my 4E has just consumed.

If I hate someone, that person is the 4E that I hate, the subject of the things we disagree on are all 4E. Our clashing values are represented by 4E – the greedy take and the non-greedy pass… on what? On a tangible thing like a dress, a car, a meal, etc.

If I am annoyed at someone driving slowly, what are they being slow about? Driving a 4E car on a 4E road at a rate that makes 4E me think I’ll be late for my appt with my 4E doctor at the 4E medical building.

A: I see how the 4Es serve as a base. I do have a question though: For hot and a group of humans from Miami there is general consensus on a hot or cold day.

For hate though, it seems harder. When I really push I see that everything I hate is wrapped up with Rupa that  makes me feel like the world around me is unstable/unsafe/ unpredictable. This then gets to a core wrong view of mine– that a stable predictable world is achievable and preferable and that if I just make the right tweaks I can get there.

For you, it seems like the 4es you hate are different things because you read the rupa to mean different things. Yes?

Is this all part of how rupa and nama interplay?

MN: When it comes to hate, there has to be an object for that hate. Whether it is a person, place, or thing.

If you hate hot weather, a high pitched voice, a fussy baby, being low on gas, cars honking, dishonesty, etc … each instance of hate is embodied by something tangible. Without that object of hate, the feeling of hate wouldn’t be triggered.

Have you considered that this instability that you are adverse to might be part of the overall stability of the larger system?

And the world IS predictable in its way… only we don’t understand or see the world’s rules because we are so focused on our own…because we think we are the world.

A: Ok, I see that we love in a Rupa world. Rupa is the foundation for the world, the things I do in it and what I believe. As a resident in the Rupa world I am at most a factor, causes are in the Rupa itself.

But that isn’t the whole story…of I get a hot meal it is the hot meal that triggers my view/belief that I am loved and cared for. I use the Rupa as proof…

But then, I don’t think the cause of my view is the Rupa, I think the Rupa is a factor. If it were the cause, my views would be born out in the real world and I think we have established they’re not, after all I hate NY because it exposed a rendition of Rupa I don’t and to see/believe exists.

What is the rest of the story?

Alright Dear Reader, this is our pausing point. We will return to this question in an upcoming blog, but this has already run quite long.